This interview was originally published in RY-JM issue no. 20, released in 2016. It was conducted by Rozh, a YCL-LJC member in Vancouver. Rozh interviewed Holly Bishu and Cicely-Belle Blain of Black Lives Matter – Vancouver, which was newly-established in 2016.
RY-JM: What were your reasons for starting Black Lives Matter in Vancouver and why do you think it’s important to bring the struggle here?
Holly: My reasoning is quite personal in that I grew up here in the Lower Mainland and I realized a few years ago that I had internalized a lot of toxic ideas of what it means to be Black and my worth in relations to white counterparts and that this was a direct result of where I had grown up. In realizing this, I had to begin the hard work of unpacking it and then rejecting the false notions. So for me, BLM-V is about bringing the lies into the light and showing others who have internalized them that their worth is so much more and that Blackness is beautiful here too.
Cicely: We really wanted to be there for our friends and family in Toronto. Having another chapter in Canada is a really important step towards cross-national and cross-border solidarity with other BLM chapters that have started in North America. I think a lot of people are confused as to why there needs to be a chapter in a city with not many Black people but we really want to honour the history of Black communities that were erased from this city and help Black people who live here and face unique struggles.
RY-JM: Tell us a little bit about you and other organizers of the movement?
Cicely: I am a recent graduate from UBC where I studied Modern European Studies and Russian. I am a queer, BlaQ femme who writes, paints, and loves wine and beaches. The core organizing team met as friends at UBC, spanning a whole range of departments, identities, and lived experiences. After our first event, we expanded to include more people and are now super excited to be able to include more folks who are queer, trans, mixed race, men, and representing different parts of the Lower Mainland.
Holly: I am also a recent graduate of UBC and I hold a degree in Political Science and History. I am an Ethiopian-Canadian, an aspiring polyglot, a spoken word poet, a learner, and a lover of justice. Our team is made up of predominantly Black women, but as we have expanded, our team has also become quite diverse as Cicely stated.
RY-JM: What were some of the successes of the first BLM-Vancouver event? Were there positive responses? What else do you plan to do to continue raising awareness?
Holly: I think a major success that we had was in establishing that there is a space for Black people in this city and letting people know that there are people who want a Black community here in Vancouver. This was directly seen in the turnout for the second event. We were able to see that word got out and people showed up to spend time in community at a cookout. The response was overwhelmingly positive from those who are Black or are allies. We found that there was a deep hunger for something like this to start and so we found ourselves very much welcomed by those who had been hoping for something like BLM.
The next thing we have is a town hall-style meeting to really find out what the needs are of the Black community in the Lower Mainland and how we can best serve and advocate for the community.
RY-JM: As a person of colour myself, I get very angry hearing people say that racism is something of the past and that we now live in a post-racial era. So, how does it make you feel to hear certain folks use “All Lives Matter” to counter the Black Lives Matter Movement? How would you go about opposing these statements, and in what ways does your movement intend on conveying how racism is still an issue in Vancouver and all of Canada?
Holly: To hear “All Lives Matter” in my opinion is to hear someone tell a lie. If all lives really mattered, we would not have a reason to exist as Black Lives Matter. So when I hear someone tell me that “all lives matter”, what I really hear them saying is that I do not matter at all and that to create a space for myself where I – and others who look like me – matter is offensive. In fleshing these ideas out, hopefully, people come to an understanding of why we do this work. But if they do not, we will still make space, still hold strong to the spaces we have created, and still proclaim that Black Lives Matter.
The way I see it, we as a collective live within a marginalized community, but also live as the marginalized within the margins. Within our team we have many intersections that go beyond just Blackness. In that, we have a tremendous opportunity to bring to light all the ways that we experience the oppression that has existed historically in Vancouver, and still exists today.
RY-JM: Here in Canada, particularly on unceded Indigenous land in British Columbia, we are also seeing strong Indigenous movements, most recently the Occupy INAC protests. Since Indigenous peoples also face immense police brutality here in Vancouver, do you think it is important to work in solidarity and build connections between the BLM movement and Indigenous struggles in Vancouver? If so, why?
Holly: It is absolutely important as settlers on this land that we work in solidarity. We recognize the privilege of being on this land and that it has come at a great cost, so it is very important to us that we hold space for Indigenous folks as well as work together, and it has been amazing to do so in the events that we have held.
RY-JM: As a women of colour myself, I’m glad to see that many of organizers of the Black Lives Matter movement here in Vancouver are women-identified folks. In your opinion, what are some of the struggles Black women and women of colour face in Vancouver, and why is it important to hear their voice in this struggle?
Holly: As a self-identified Black girl from the Lower Mainland, born and raised, I have spent a lot of time thinking about how my blackness was shaped here. I think the greatest issue that I have struggled with is invisibility. Because of Vancouver’s history with Black people, we now exist in such small numbers that community is hard to find, and the greater culture of the city ignores us most of the time. Growing up and not seeing yourself represented feeds into you this idea that you are not good enough as you are, that your skin is not right, that you are less than because you do not match the dominant culture. This then affects how you present yourself, what you think about yourself, and for me, it caused me to reject a lot of who I am for many years.
It is important that we hear these marginalized voices because this is where the true picture of a society comes out. From the outer margins, we can see a greater image of a society and what the fabric of Vancouver is really made of. Black women, and other women of colour, hold a space that is so different than women who are not of colour because they experience the intersection of racism and gender. It is important that we make and hold space for voices from the margins in order to learn more and gain greater understanding of life on these Coast Salish Territories.
RY-JM: I have heard that you also want to focus on Black LGBTQ struggles here. What is the importance of doing this?
Cicely: We really want to lift up the voices of folks who are Black and LGBTQ+ because they are marginalized within the margins. By this I mean they face additional struggles based on the intersections of their identity so it is important to hold space for these folks, support their work and celebrate their communities. Even within oppressed groups, some of us have more privilege than others so it is important for those of us who are straight and cisgender to be inclusive of all identities.
RY-JM: Since I’m writing for an anti-capitalist magazine, I was wondering whether you think there are connections between capitalism and the racism and violence Black people face in Vancouver? For instance, in Vancouver specifically, the cost of living and gentrification continues to be an issue for working class people. Do you think issues like this are relevant to your struggles?
Holly: Absolutely! We cannot excise the rising cost of living in Vancouver from the struggle of marginalized peoples in Vancouver. With a large part of the Black community being migrants, issues of rising living costs as well as being pushed out of previously affordable living areas are extremely relevant to what we seek to highlight. As we get to know the Black community more and figure out exactly what the community feels are the areas of concern in this regard, we can speak out against those things.
RY-JM: Lastly, how do you see the movement growing locally, do you have hope for the future? Can you tell us a little bit about some of the more long-term goals of Black Lives Matter in Vancouver and what changes you wish to see?
Cicely: We really hope that we can meet the needs of the Black community in Vancouver. We have created a survey that will hopefully give us a better idea of the things that Black folks who live here would like to see from us. We, of course, want to have more events and gatherings to bring together our community and have carefree celebrations but we also want to make sure we are doing important work that helps uplift the people who need us.
Banner photo: BLM-V organizers. Including Holly (left) and Cicely (third from right) – Photo cred: K. Ho (www.photosbykatherineho.com)